David is upset about an overnight tennis bet. Chris puts it in perspective. The takeaway is that lessons are learnt. All the SharpBetting videos are available here or go to our YouTube channel.
Video Transcript
David
Chris, I had a terrible bet. I backed Djokovic to beat, to win the US Open. He's gone out in round three, I think. Terrible bet. I backed him to win the Olympics, which was great. But today, terrible bet. So I want you to make me feel better from your historical days of betting. Seriously, give me some stories. Make me feel better. A hundred and forty quid on Djokovic. Terrible. What was the worst day of betting you've had?
Chris
I couldn't give you the worst day, but I can give you my worst week.
David
That's even better.
Chris
Around 2006 I saw this big edge on the on the draw bias at Wolverhampton racetrack. I'd been betting all year. It was the end of the year. It was between Christmas and New Year. I had a target in my mind of what I wanted to win that year on Betfair. I think I was betting every race to win or lose three thousand pounds at that time. And I said to myself, I really want to go over this threshold I had in my mind.
There's a huge draw bias at Wolverhampton Racecourse. I can't remember what it was, the inside draw or the outside draw, but it was a bias one way or the other. Let's just assume it was the inside. And I said, I'm just going to lay the horse one, two, three, and four in the draw and combined to lose £15,000 every race. And that was kind of what I decided for that week. Because I worked out if you'd been doing this for the last eight weeks on the all-weather at Wolverhampton, you'd have made a fortune. It was like a huge bias.
David
So sorry, you went from like your normal was three thousand exposure?
Chris
I think it was maybe three or four, something like that.
David
And this one week you went five fold, let's go to fifteen?
Chris
Yeah, let's just push this thing through.
David
Is that because you were behind schedule?
Chris
No, I just had in mind I want to win this amount this year. I need to get to that level. I want to get to that level. I've had a great year. Let's just take a punt on it.
...the draw bias went the other way. End of the week, £70,000 down.
And then what happened is the draw bias went the other way. End of the week, £70,000 down. Gone.
David
Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Seventy thousand pounds, one week. What was the, do you remember what the, did it start, was it like, ten grand a day... was it like, was there a particular day where you lost loads?
Chris
Like I mean so obviously you you're laying collectively the four inside draw and I think there's there's normally like twelve or fourteen runners a race so a lot of races you're winning. But then you're like minus fifteen thousand on the ones you're losing.
Back then at that time I wasn't that sophisticated in how I was putting the money down. There were probably traders jumping in front of the my lays because it was such big stakes going on. It was absolutely absurd. But I was betting at a level that I haven't bet since. I mean, it was just absurd, really. But I was just trying to push because I thought, there's such a big bias. I'm just going to do this. So I don't know whether it was any particular day where I lost the most.
...if you're going to gamble professionally have a plan; do not deviate from the plan and never get greedy
But I just remember at the end of the week thinking, I'm never doing that again it was like a huge lesson learned. It's like you've just got to stick to the plan. Never ever, like if you're going to gamble professionally have a plan. Do not deviate from the plan and never get greedy and obviously at that point I got greedy. I thought there's a huge bias I'm just going to exploit it and it just went against me.
David
I mean, my having a hundred quid on Djokovic to win the New York, the US Open doesn't seem quite as bad, but also I would never claim that was a professional, focussed bet that I had! But I do remember that era because it was around the time, I remember Betfair used to send you all sorts of perks and we got a helicopter to Goodwood. Was it Goodwood? And there was one chap, I mean, lovely guy he might even be watching this but one chap was so full of confidence on the helicopter ride in and I don't know his figure but on the way out on the way back eight hours later I remember he was in tears.
Chris
Yeah and I think that's the thing is that gambling can get you like that if you're not you know, you can build up funds and just lose it in an instant if you get greedy and it's a huge lesson. I think if you don't, if I hadn't done that, I probably, you know, I may not have carried on going the next twenty years since. Because that's a huge lesson to learn. Don't deviate from the plan.
David
Knowing you as well as I do, that really does surprise me that you allowed such a deviation.
Chris
I think there's also a huge level of confidence in your betting with money you've already won. So it wasn't like I'd lost money I'd earned somewhere or money that was borrowed or anything like that. This was just money sitting in the Betfair account it was it just you're playing with numbers and I think a lot of back then... I think a lot of it was just it didn't seem like real money. If you've got a hundred pounds in your pocket that's in cash that's real money you've got. It's just a number in your Betfair account and it drops from whatever it is, seventy thousand pounds. It's like you know you can make that back if you have a system.
David
So that's fun. Do you remember what your Betfair balance said in that top right corner at the most ever? Do you remember what that number was at this peak?
Chris
Well I used to keep a lot of money in there so yeah I mean there would always be back then would you always be like six figures and in the balance. I mean that's just what you do if you're regularly betting three thousand or four thousand or whatever in a race you've got to have that in in case you have a a run where ten races go against you in these forty thousand that can happen.
David
What was your best single day or your best single week?
I can sense your reticence to talk about the good numbers but you're perfectly happy talking about the the bad numbers but what so but I'm going to force the issue what was your best single day or your best single week or your best single period where you thought that's all-right.
Chris
In one race I remember at Lingfield racetrack when I was doing the paddock stuff and I think I was laying a race to win four thousand so what would happen is you take the horses you're going to lay until you'd collectively, you'd lay, so say you had two horses you're laying, you'd keep laying the horses until you're minus four thousand on both of them. So if both of them become an odds-on shot, obviously you win more than four thousand if those two horses lose.
There was one day where, so what happened was back then I would, I was just kind of blindly putting information into an old sort of PDA computer thing on my opinion, looking at the horses and then that would go back on the mobile network to the computer at home that would then place the bets automatically to lose say four thousand pounds collectively on the race so I would just go through you know put in the information for each horse but you don't really know what the odds of the horses are. You just know that the ones that come across badly going to lay collectively to lose four grand or whatever it happened to be.
It was £16,500. So that's the biggest single win.
So what I did all that you then go then go to like the lounge bit to watch the race on tv after looking in the paddock refresh this sort of I think it was Betfair lite or something like that I didn't have a mobile app and saw that it was £16,500 to win I'd win if those two horses lost because one was odds on and the other one was like 5/2 second favourite. And then the next horse was like, 16/1, something like that. So it was like, it ended up like, I guess, sort of a 4/1 shot that I'd put four grand on. Which you wouldn't, you wouldn't normally do traditionally, but because those two horses looked so bad in the paddock, you're like, that's how it panned out. And then lo and behold, the other horse won. It was £16,500. So that's the biggest single win.
David
£20,000 swing in the course of two and a half minutes.
Chris
Yeah. I mean, it was crazy times. It was before I did trading, before there was consistent profits. So things would just go up and down like a yo-yo back then.
David
It's crazy because, you know, take it in your stride and all part of the process and like you say you've got the funds and it's just it's percentages of the funds and it's not it doesn't matter on an individual basis. You look back in a year and you but that must still have triggered something pretty exciting I mean you know what what was that like to win or to lose. To see yourself, to win, to watch a race, see that horse come home and instead of losing four thousand, you're winning sixteen.
Chris
Having refreshed it and seeing what the odds of the horses were, which I didn't know when I transmitted the information, I was like, well, this one's got no chance. I suppose if there was a seven race card, I would be laying the ones I didn't like every race so in theory you know you'd expect you'd lose one and win one and lose so it was kind of up and down but normally it would be like you'd win or lose four grand you wouldn't have such a big margin I think that particular day where I won just over sixteen on that horse the whole day was like twenty five grand win so the other ones were winning as well it was like it was that was a crazy day. Normally it kind of, you're waiting for the last race, you kind of won three, lost three, and it's all kind of down to the last race, whether you win or lose. But some days you go on a good run, you know, a lot of them come in, other days, terrible, you know, all seven lose.
David
Do you know what sort of margin you were making in a year?
So do you know what sort of, absolutely reasonable if you say no, but do you know what sort of margin you were making? It sounds like a huge turnover. Do you know what sort of margin you were making in a year?
Chris
Margins are a hard thing to kind of, I think people sort of say, well, if I stake ten pounds and I make, you know, sort of, or I stake a hundred pounds and I make ten pounds, I'm making ten percent return. But it really depends on the odds. So you'd expect to make a far higher return on if you just back 33/1 shots than you would if that should be 20/1. You know, you're going to make a huge return on investment. If you're backing up even money shots or even take it extreme you're backing 1.01 shots if every single one one you're making 1% so it's kind of hard to work it out.
I was making about 4%.
But I think in terms of what I was trying to do was always be around an even money shot on racing so you're kind of laying half the field it didn't always work like that in the paddock but that kind of and on that long term, I was making about 4%.
David
Right. Yeah. Long term. Yeah. That's a good number. Right. So. So seventy thousand in a week, did anything come to a close? Is that just like a standout? Was it were there any other that sort of I've got tonnes that stick in my mind and it doesn't compare, but I backed a boxer who I watched on Sky Sports on a Saturday night, backed him to win on points. He won the British title. Split-decision I think. Might even be unanimous decision; they gave him the belt in the ring I watched the broadcast I saw my balance increased by three hundred pounds the broadcast ended and I went to bed woke up the next morning; money's gone, look up look online an hour after the fight the judges realised they've miscalculated the scorecards. The bookmakers resettle and take the cash back my balance is down three hundred I could have withdrawn the money.
Chris
That's worse than losing, isn't it? That's worse than just losing the money straight.
David
But it's like we were talking about the other day about being the difference between a professional punter, you being in a position to swallow seventy thousand in a week as opposed to being a recreational punter, like a serious but still recreational punter that I was and that three hundred quid that was there and then taken away that, you know, that stuck. And as a recreational punter, you have loads of those. You remember those.
Chris
I mean, that's just gutting to have been paid into the account and then have it. But then what can the bookmaker do? They've got to pay the other result.
David
Yes. And also morally, if I had taken the money out, that's not the honest thing to do because the decision was read wrong or whatever it was. I don't know... so morally perhaps I've got no case to say actually I should have taken the money out but after that I did change my practices and whenever I had a serious win I withdrew the money immediately. It's like you say: you learn from a big burn.
Chris
So would you have given the money back if if you'd withdrawn it? You'd never be able to bet with them again would you?
David
Yeah. So, I mean, on the record, a hundred percent, I would have given all the money back. Off the record: No, I wouldn't have given the money back.
Chris
Yeah. That's an interesting one, isn't it?
David
Yeah. What about, do you have any sort of like, do you bet recreationally as well?
Chris
Yeah. I put 50p or £1 on for a bet on a World Cup football game or something that I have absolutely no professional opinion on, systematic opinion. Or if there's a system involved, then I bet whatever the system says. Probably. But that's it. So that's it. It's the, I can't believe you bet like that! It's amazing. The fun bets where you just have an opinion on something. It's still fun to be right or to be wrong, or to be close, that's still fun. I mean, that's a different style of gambling. If I didn't have an actual system telling me that I knew before I logged into the account I was going to win long-term doing that, why would you bet more than a pound? There wouldn't be any reason to.
David
I had an old colleague of mine who had a theory that he simply could not understand anyone enjoying sport without having some financial exposure in it.
So I had an old colleague of mine who had a theory that he simply could not understand anyone enjoying sport without having some financial exposure in it. And it doesn't need to be significant. If you're watching sport, you must have an opinion about it to get the most enjoyment out of it. If you've got an opinion about it, back your opinion, and it enhances the experience. It's kind of a good thing.
Chris
Yeah, I think some things. World Cup cricket or football, you just want England to win. So I think that is exciting regardless of the bet. And probably like a lot of the time, not in cricket, but in football, if you're having a bet, you bet on England to lose and it would just be a miserable experience to watch, wouldn't it?
David
Well, I mean... I don't know if I should admit this. With England football, I have an emotional hedge in every single tournament. I lay them and I never tell anyone. Delete this part, but I do that every tournament because I hate that feeling. The expectation, it gets so high and you believe it every four years, every two years. There's always reasons.
Chris
Well, they're always bad value, aren't they?
David
Yeah well that's the other thing... there was a big thing what were they four to one a couple of months ago three to one in places or something I don't know I mean they nearly did it.
So sometimes you get lucky with these ones as well but yeah so it's it's funny that you can be a professional punter, a serious punter, but it still is those fun bits that, you know, still draw you in, log in, couple of quid here.
Chris
Yeah. Not a couple of quid. A quid.
David
Exactly. Keep it under control. Keep it recreational. When the fun stops, stop.
Brilliant. All right, well, I do feel a little bit better. I'm going to go and put a hundred pounds on Djokovic to win the Australian Open. And let's do this again in January when I cash in.
Chris
Excellent.
David
Cheers Chris.
